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Welcome to the Greyhound Knowledge Forum

   

The Greyhound-Data Forum has been created to act as a platform for greyhound enthusiasts to share information on this magnificent animal called a greyhound.

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Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

23 Jun 2018 01:50


 (6)
 (3)


I knew this sort of but I didnt really. We may be wasting promotional opportunities.

What woke me up was an item on the GRNSW News about Queenslander Steve Williams, the owner of Velocity Liberty, a surprise winner of the Peter Mosman last week. Steve also owns a more famous dog, Glen Gallon.

But thats just the tip of the iceberg. Do you know he has 40 dogs in training, another dozen being readied, as well as 60 pups on his breeding property? Thats a century worth talking about.

OK, insiders hear about the Wheelers, the Bordas and so on but do the public know? Are there success stories which would offer a perspective of the industry which would better balance the naysayers that usually grab the headlines?

How about the 100 Club? Can we get a list of all the owners or syndicates who meet that target and tell their story. Not in trade papers but in the wider world. At the very least it would encourage potential new owners to make the jump.

Pictures of mums and pups would make a terrific start. Then there is all the GAP evidence in the background.

Remember I made a suggestion earlier on these pages that a reluctant trainer should get the local paper interested in all the goings on in his kennel. He was not keen but I pointed out that human interest stories of that sort are just what the public will lap up, warts and all. Try it and see.





Nathan Bendeich
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 1225
Dogs 13 / Races 0

23 Jun 2018 08:42


 (8)
 (1)


It's not even about the lesser known Poeple being a success story
I stated years ago we have a product that speaks for itself .....
It just needs a stage ???
Which means Poeple who are in high regard or personality status to pitch in and make it happen ... e.g. Terry hill , Ricky Ponting
Western suburbs nsw at the moment is growing out of control , new suburbs
New families and so on , where is it near ? Richmond race track !
Do u know how blessed Richmond race track is at present
The population is coming towards us ! Around us !
And what do we do ?
Nothing .....!
No carnivals
No visits to schools with a prized gem ! So kids can feel and witness these beauties
And go home and ask for a greyhound !
The Poeple interested in success stories Bruce by the lesser known headliners
And dream of doing it themselves is 20 to 40 year old punters ! That have a dig all week at work and would love to win some easy coin !
They already know about these stories !
Our sport is growing !
With growth from Poeple interested in joining in the sport comes a product that too will grow in numbers again (litters ) fact it is rising again !
With this comes more pressure for these racers 2nd part of life ....RETIREMENT
Wether they race or not ! One day they all need to be seen to be rehomed for any chance of our sport to survive and be looked at by society as a viable and beautiful sport !
Once again ! Forget your 1 or 2 off success stories !
Embracement from as many suburbs as possible is required to gain support in public perception , this is done with work , time and patience !
Not a quick flash in the pan 100k winning story !
As quick as these stories are read they are forgotten about !
Spending quality days through out the year , walking and showing the public in person are remembered and appreciated greater !
From this , owning racers will gather momentum also and take care of itself !

Putting owning a racer ! Before owning a pet ! Will bury us once and for all in the future !
Like your enthusiasm Bruce , but it's cart before the horse for me
Question Bruce , seriously not being smart !
Have you ever walked a greyhound in public ?Streets or beach or park ?
Have you ever spent a year or a period of time raising one ?
I'm asking these questions for the purpose if the answer is yes , then you would know everyone that comes in contact with you either in streets or beach or friends come over and spend 5 min with you and your greyhound , you would realize how instant the connection is between greyhound and human !
It's simply astonishing! And then next thing that happens is the persons face is in absolute shock and disbelief of what they had pre empted and what just happened !
They are so in the dark about these pets , you cannot comprehend!
And at the same time the same Poeple who are so in the dark have so much interest and admiration for them when they are presented with the opportunity to come into contact with them !
My brother free runs his at the beach and he would have a person come up to him every time he goes there and they are amazed by her ! And give nothing but praise to her just on what she look like !
I'm sure they walk off with their staffy going we have a shyt dog ! Lol
My point is , no battlers story , no prize money story required .Everyone knows the ins and outs of a 2% chance of this occurring!
What needs to be unearthed is everyone can have a companion like no other breed can offer or come near !
Just let the greyhound do the talking and give them a stage !
A lot of ground work ! But a viable industry that lasts forever for future generations to enjoy is surely worth it isn't it !


Russ Forno
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 274
Dogs 0 / Races 0

23 Jun 2018 12:35


 (8)
 (1)


My brother and i re-entered after a 20 year absence , 3 pups breeders dregs, only ones to win.Then the BAIRD of gay banned my pastime.Rectum, sure did. Have now bred a litter,for ourselves ( Two previous litters we bred, 3 track record holders, from bitches that won 2 races).Thought i would never lower myself to racing at Potts Park,but what wonderful afternoon, won a race with a dog that will never win another race. Owners overjoyed, what a top day. And i won the meat raffle. I forgot what it was like to enjoy& win a race! The joy for the owners, was like winning a Melbourne cup. Thats what it's all about



Jack Ogilvie
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 15482
Dogs 0 / Races 1

23 Jun 2018 20:45


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 (0)


That's what it is all about the joy of winning .when I used to train I would walk my young dogs past the school in the morning and let all the school children pat the dogs ,doing this I never had a dog with stage fright ,what's more the kids loved patting them.



Nathan Trigg
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 516
Dogs 20 / Races 28

23 Jun 2018 21:29


 (8)
 (1)


A bit off topic but I have to agree with the above.

I think the way forward is to give our primary and high school students a positive interaction with greyhounds early on and hopefully this may lead to an interest in the sport later.

Unfortunately a lot of our universities are being used as an avenue to brainwash and recruit the next line of animal activists.

I have a mate who comes off the land and he sent three of his daughters to Uni only for them to come home as vegan's and want to challenge him over the need to turn soil as it causes erosion.

This is happening more than we realise and they are becoming the next keyboard warriors.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

23 Jun 2018 21:38


 (3)
 (3)


Wonderful stories here. Agree with all that. I mentioned the 100 Club theme just as one example of a million out there. Previously I have mentioned the Uncle Bens caravan which used to do the rounds of the shopping centres (scrubbed for budget reasons). Just the other day I met and patted a GAP dog in the street and chatted with an enthusiastic young owner for five minutes.

A firm I once worked for built a program around "Every Employee a Salesman" which highlighted the fact that a team effort was vital to success.

It just needs dedicated and skilled management to pull it together and keep it going - exactly as has been done for GAP but multiplied 10 or a 100 times.

The gold is there waiting to be mined.

NB Good coverage in the national papers will take a while to generate but getting to the local and regional media is much easier to organise - they are always looking for special interest stories.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

24 Jun 2018 21:23


 (0)
 (0)


Nathan,

The Uni issues are a real problem these days, however the "no till" option you mention is a legitimate farming method adopted by quite a few farmers for specific reasons. Different subject.



Grant Thomas
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 11447
Dogs 64 / Races 20

26 Jun 2018 05:10


 (4)
 (1)


Hasn't nearly EVERYTHING been tried...???...I've read stories and seen them on TV about this family and that dog etc, etc...the BIG winners and the BATTLERS...the money won, the money lost...the Celeb that owns this the Celeb that owns that...the controversy...the shame...etc etc etc...NOT ONE thing has worked...Decline that's ALL you read, hear now...can't see a light at the end of the tunnel...or a silver lining on any cloud...

If you drew a graph from say 1970 to 2017...you'll have reached the frame and gone past it on a downward angle...

IMHO...Only way up is through...LEADERSHIP...Taking control...it isn't there...so...That's All Folks...



Johnathon Campbell
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 4635
Dogs 5 / Races 2

26 Jun 2018 09:17


 (2)
 (0)


Only one way.
Having powerful people in influential places.
The rest will follow.


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

26 Jun 2018 21:19


 (2)
 (0)


Nathan,

That would help.

Grant,

Your last sentence is on the money. But I don't understand your earlier comments. I can't recall a positive TV story on greyhounds in the last two decades. Maybe I missed one?

You will have seen a few on SKY or in the trade magazines but the general public don't read them. 99% is insiders talking to insiders.

The current spurt on GAP programs (which is good) is not an initiative of management, it is a reaction forced on them by others - mainly government.

Nobody promotes the greyhound. Nobody promotes greyhound racing. Nobody promotes the owners and trainers. Nobody informs the media and the public - so the media makes up its own mind in a vacuum.

It isn't rocket science. It can be done. Whether it is a motor car or a loaf of bread you have to get out there and flog it. And keep flogging it. And it is not just state authorities.

At best, clubs service business which walks in the door. They don't go out and look for it, and have not been doing so since 1990 when SKY arrived and patrons started using their local licensed club rather than going to the track. Then they started dieing off, only to be replaced by mugs in pubs, who don't have the faintest idea of what they are doing.

Breeding numbers are dicey but not a one of these organisations have gone out there and asked why is this so. They have no real idea of why people love or hate greyhounds because they have not asked. It's called research - fundamental to any business.

No research equals no progress. No progress means they are failing in their fiduciary duties under the Act. So sack them - or more succinctly, sack the bureaucratic system under which they work and replace it with a lively, forward-looking, commercial system that works on results.




Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 Jun 2018 06:11


 (1)
 (0)


Bruce Teague wrote:

Nathan,

That would help.

Grant,

Your last sentence is on the money. But I don't understand your earlier comments. I can't recall a positive TV story on greyhounds in the last two decades. Maybe I missed one?

You will have seen a few on SKY or in the trade magazines but the general public don't read them. 99% is insiders talking to insiders.

The current spurt on GAP programs (which is good) is not an initiative of management, it is a reaction forced on them by others - mainly government.

Nobody promotes the greyhound. Nobody promotes greyhound racing. Nobody promotes the owners and trainers. Nobody informs the media and the public - so the media makes up its own mind in a vacuum.

It isn't rocket science. It can be done. Whether it is a motor car or a loaf of bread you have to get out there and flog it. And keep flogging it. And it is not just state authorities.

At best, clubs service business which walks in the door. They don't go out and look for it, and have not been doing so since 1990 when SKY arrived and patrons started using their local licensed club rather than going to the track. Then they started dieing off, only to be replaced by mugs in pubs, who don't have the faintest idea of what they are doing.

Breeding numbers are dicey but not a one of these organisations have gone out there and asked why is this so. They have no real idea of why people love or hate greyhounds because they have not asked. It's called research - fundamental to any business.

No research equals no progress. No progress means they are failing in their fiduciary duties under the Act. So sack them - or more succinctly, sack the bureaucratic system under which they work and replace it with a lively, forward-looking, commercial system that works on results.


Perhaps Bruce if Gladys and the NSW Govt, righted the wrong! and initiated the same amount of money spent on trying to destroy our Industry. Into promoting the sport ($4-5m just on vicious add campaigning) we would win over the Public, Vets, Anti's etc and prosper into the future.



Tor Janes
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 10024
Dogs 16 / Races 0

27 Jun 2018 07:58


 (2)
 (0)


Its been said time and time again however worth mentioning there are no actual targets for the people in power to actually grow the sport/returns to participants, ceos needs motivation like either grow the sport by 20% in 12 months or you are voted out.
You put that in their targets and they fall over backward trying to promote it. They have no skin in the game thats the problem in a nutshell from my observations.
There are heaps of good stories from owners, these can be shared, but its like painting a metal roof with ceiling paint, yes looks good but wait for the rain, unless everyone is on the same train its just empty tracks to no where


Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

27 Jun 2018 23:47


 (1)
 (4)


Terry,

In their view, the government is righting the wrong. Live baiting and alleged excessive breeding had the industry at minus 10. Gov is now saying we will get you back up to zero - here's $41m.

In other words, they have an answer but they don't really understand the question. They have no appreciation of why the industry is not prospering. Nor did the reviewers in Qld/NSW/Vic. They looked only at some symptoms and failed to identify the disease.

Hence they added more rules and employed more people - which is the standard bureaucratic response. End of story - file it away.

To re-open that file it is necessary to go to the voters and show them what is fine and wonderful about the industry. Rarely have we done that but, when tried, it is always a success, as GAP programs have demonstrated. We just have to strengthen and widen those links.

Example: Huawei Technologies (whose phone I happen to use) is banned from government contracts due to implied security fears about Chinese interference. So they are sponsoring visits to the HQ and factory by business groups and politicians to show them in fine detail what they do. They open their books and their coding for inspection just as Nokia or Apple might do.

But the racetrack is just the tip of the iceberg. Gladys and a few mates need to visit breeding and training establishments to better understand how the greyhound industry works. If not Gladys, then a hundred or a thousand of ordinary people who can then pass on their views to Gladys and company.

In parallel, Gladys has to be told that running a commercial industry managed by 3, 4, 5 or 6 board members meeting every couple of weeks and light on with their knowledge of the industry is a disaster waiting to happen. That's a bad and outmoded organisational structure. It's been done again and again and always failed. So don't try it yet another time.

(That is roughly what Tor is saying about accountability).

It will be a lot of fuss and bother but it has to be done. Every breeder and trainer has to put his hand up and say I'll help. Every one of them has to make sure the local paper and his MP has his phone number in case they have a query. Someone talked about school kids being interested - so organise class visits on a regular basis (some already do this for sheep and cattle). A vet might tag along because it also promotes his own business. The possibilities are endless.




Rod Hampton
Australia

Posts 1627
Dogs 2993 / Races 11820

28 Jun 2018 04:28


 (0)
 (0)


Bruce,
2 months ago
I sent a suggestion Mr M @ grnsw with a plan to test trial a schools
"introduction" to greyhound racing.
got a cold as ice reply from Madeline, but a little later got a a thanks from Mr m
to my knowledge, nothing has been done


Terry Jordan
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 6018
Dogs 0 / Races 0

28 Jun 2018 08:08


 (0)
 (0)


Rod Hampton wrote:

Bruce,
2 months ago
I sent a suggestion Mr M @ grnsw with a plan to test trial a schools
"introduction" to greyhound racing.
got a cold as ice reply from Madeline, but a little later got a a thanks from Mr m
to my knowledge, nothing has been done

Rod: I have suggested similar trials in the past. Re: Local Schools having INTERESTED students work (Paid) on race nights as catchers (After Training) Then trained as handlers. Work experience with dedicated large Training Establishment. (After Police Checks) for Trained Interested kids. Yep waste of time! I'm sure THEY GRNSW will come up with something similar into the future, and pat themselves on the back with this wonderful initiative.



Grant Thomas
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 11447
Dogs 64 / Races 20

29 Jun 2018 15:23


 (1)
 (0)


Bruce Teague wrote:

Nathan,

That would help.

Grant,

Your last sentence is on the money. But I don't understand your earlier comments. I can't recall a positive TV story on greyhounds in the last two decades. Maybe I missed one?

You will have seen a few on SKY or in the trade magazines but the general public don't read them. 99% is insiders talking to insiders.

The current spurt on GAP programs (which is good) is not an initiative of management, it is a reaction forced on them by others - mainly government.

Nobody promotes the greyhound. Nobody promotes greyhound racing. Nobody promotes the owners and trainers. Nobody informs the media and the public - so the media makes up its own mind in a vacuum.

It isn't rocket science. It can be done. Whether it is a motor car or a loaf of bread you have to get out there and flog it. And keep flogging it. And it is not just state authorities.

At best, clubs service business which walks in the door. They don't go out and look for it, and have not been doing so since 1990 when SKY arrived and patrons started using their local licensed club rather than going to the track. Then they started dieing off, only to be replaced by mugs in pubs, who don't have the faintest idea of what they are doing.

Breeding numbers are dicey but not a one of these organisations have gone out there and asked why is this so. They have no real idea of why people love or hate greyhounds because they have not asked. It's called research - fundamental to any business.

No research equals no progress. No progress means they are failing in their fiduciary duties under the Act. So sack them - or more succinctly, sack the bureaucratic system under which they work and replace it with a lively, forward-looking, commercial system that works on results.

" I can't recall a positive TV story on greyhounds in the last two decades. Maybe I missed one?"

No Nads...Fred Bassett(Hamish and Andy)...Greyhounds and prisoners helping each other...I think it was the Gunnedah High School doing a greyhound course that was on TV...just a few Bruce, their out there...

I'm still of the opinion I had 15 or so years ago that City racing must be promoted...that's where people go on a Friday and Saturday night for a good time and spend up big...facilities at Wenty compared to where the youth go now to have a night out is a fecking disgrace to say the least...when your trying to allure crowds in to spend some hard earned...



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

01 Jul 2018 04:20


 (0)
 (1)


Grant,

I take your point about those odd promotional efforts. The prisoner deal is an ongoing one, too. And add Dr Harry. The others are gone, finish. Nothing continuous. No advertising except on SKY, which does not count. No billboards.

You're right about Wenty but that is ancient history. Why don't they go there now? Well, here's an answer. It does not rate.

1. The effort is not there.
2. People will go out and sit in the weather to watch the Bunnies or the Panthers because their heart is in it - scarves, jersies, beanies and all.
3. They can go down the road and watch the races in comfort and still have a bet. Even when popular, Wenty never had that.
4. The prospect of creating a glassed-in, quality dining view of the race (as HP had before its death) is minimal unless ...

... Wenty, or wherever, is redeveloped on a multi-user basis, usable 7 days. It has to add something by comparison to a well run licensed club, and not just jumping castles for the kids. Try movies, skating rinks (with matches), kindergartens, football of some sort, TAFE classes, paintball, roller derby (very underdone now), medical centres, motel, free entry, anything - limited only by your imagination and whatever you can stuff into a "park" area and all the politics that go with it.

If that is not possible, dump Wenty and go to Plan B. It has no future as it is. Like Allianz, it has outlived its usefulness. However, that does not lessen the need to promote greyhounds more generally. In fact, it makes it even more important.





Grant Thomas
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 11447
Dogs 64 / Races 20

01 Jul 2018 16:40


 (1)
 (0)


Bruce Teague wrote:

Grant,

I take your point about those odd promotional efforts. The prisoner deal is an ongoing one, too. And add Dr Harry. The others are gone, finish. Nothing continuous. No advertising except on SKY, which does not count. No billboards.

You're right about Wenty but that is ancient history. Why don't they go there now? Well, here's an answer. It does not rate.

1. The effort is not there.
2. People will go out and sit in the weather to watch the Bunnies or the Panthers because their heart is in it - scarves, jersies, beanies and all.
3. They can go down the road and watch the races in comfort and still have a bet. Even when popular, Wenty never had that.
4. The prospect of creating a glassed-in, quality dining view of the race (as HP had before its death) is minimal unless ...

... Wenty, or wherever, is redeveloped on a multi-user basis, usable 7 days. It has to add something by comparison to a well run licensed club, and not just jumping castles for the kids. Try movies, skating rinks (with matches), kindergartens, football of some sort, TAFE classes, paintball, roller derby (very underdone now), medical centres, motel, free entry, anything - limited only by your imagination and whatever you can stuff into a "park" area and all the politics that go with it.

If that is not possible, dump Wenty and go to Plan B. It has no future as it is. Like Allianz, it has outlived its usefulness. However, that does not lessen the need to promote greyhounds more generally. In fact, it makes it even more important.

1.True...
2.That's not where the youth( youth as in MONEY to spend ) go when it's raining on a Friday, Saturday night...
3.4. A glassed in viewing restaurant/club facilities at Wenty gives them another choice of venue...tram 5 mins away, housing/units going up close by...why the hell would they come to stand out in the rain with their girl/boyfriend when Star etc are up the road...

All this other stuff not necessary...could be racing 3 days a week maybe more...obviously not all would be for city prizemoney but totally underutilised waste of space if it's a dog track fecking race dogs then...but you can't while it's in it's 1970's state of decay...

ANYWAY we've missed the boat...such facilities should have been built years ago...no vision, no desire, big bucks paid for minimal results( C.E.O. etc )



Bruce Teague
Australia
(Verified User)
Posts 2092
Dogs 0 / Races 0

02 Jul 2018 00:02


 (1)
 (0)


Grant,

As I suggested, it is time to go to Plan B. When Sports Minister Mike Cleary sponsored the new WPK grandstand ($16m from memory, in old money), it was a huge improvement on what went before. Thats no longer true as the world has moved on and greyhound racing has stood still. The once busy mezzanine is dead, the leger is gone, the roof is creaky and the track is sub-standard.

Our competitor is not the Star but pubs and clubs across the nation. Thats why surveys show that 18-35 year olds are now a betting mainstay, not by dint of track attendance, but while having a beer after work. Older types might stay for dinner but then disappear around 8:30 pm due to family and work the next morning. Your typical TAB outlet is like a morgue after that (Sun-Thu), yet greyhound racing goes on long afterwards - even after the supermarkets have closed and so a long trainers day becomes even longer again.

So, yes, Fri-Sat is a key target, but something is still missing. We have lost the pizazz that was once there. We have dropped way down in the pecking order. Blaming SKY is just an excuse, not the whole reason for the change. Fewer people tie themselves to being a greyhound fan. Even fewer are knowledgeable about the breed. Its not socially acceptable or not enough.

Thats partly why I suggest the multi-purpose concept for the greyhound complex of the future. We need to become just the supermarket in the shopping centre one supports the other. You go there for one thing and buy another two or three items on the way. A Multiplex pays expenses with movie tickets but makes a squillion from popcorn. Taxes dont pay police wages, speeding fines do. And so on.

All of which is why bureaucrats and aging owners should never be put in charge of racing. You need business managers who can see beyond the end of the year. And you have to transfer the breeders and the trainers ambition and excitement to Joe Blow in the street.

PS: Years ago, when addressing a GRA board meeting, I suggested that the industry had to design a product that appealed to a suburban housewife. The only bloke (all blokes, of course) who understood the point was the vet who ran a suburban practice. The rest all argued the toss about some sort of irrelevant nonsense as GBOTA, NCA and the WP Trust were prone to do. That point is still valid, although the vet has gone, the NCA has gone, and the language is non-PC today.

Funnily enough, much the same point was made in the late 1940s by the then-chairman of the old Greyhound Control Board (see the old Annual Reports). So much for progress!



posts 19